C.S. Lewis wrote:
“The business of becoming a son of God, of being turned from a created thing to a begotten thing, of passing over from the temporary biological life into timeless ‘spiritual’ life, has been done for us. Humanity is already ‘saved’ in principle. We individuals have to appropriate that salvation.”
(Mere Christianity, p. 157)
As we read in 1 John 2:2:
"[Jesus]is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world."(ESV)
and again in Hebrew 7:27:
"[Jesus] has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself." (ESV)
Christ then died once for all, even though we are not all for one [Jesus]. Let us all then, accept this most wonderous gift which was given once for ALL PEOPLE, FOR ALL TIME. Lets us not throw this gift back in his face but accept it with gladness, and then share will all people that they too may accept this gift that given for them, ALL of them.
The only problem - and I know I throwing the cat amongst the pidgeons here - is that if you take those verses to mean that Jesus died with the intention of saving the entire world, then Jesus is surely a colossial failure.
ReplyDeleteIt depends what you define as a failure. Jesus fully succeeded in what he came to do. He lived a perfect life, taught about God [Trinity], died to enable the forgiveness of sins, was risen from the dead so that death can be truely defeated. All this he accomplished fully. What you are refering to is Mans failure to accept the Gospel. Man failed. The Father perfectly decreed, Jesus fully enabled and the spirit fully called. The person who rejects fails.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I forgot to mention:
ReplyDeleteThanks for taking the time to read and comment. I believe it is good to discuss these issues and challenge one another so that we can further each others walk with Jesus, and our knowledge of his written word.
In Christ,
Peter
Problem - and thus it begins - is that the Bible talks about Jesus having accomplished something in the past tense. Nothing left to be added to it. If Jesus died to enable our forgiveness only then the Biblical authors fail a basic grammar test, and Jesus becomes nothing more than a tool, with the real importance and saving action being my choice (yes or no) thus I am my own saviour and Jesus is just a tool.
ReplyDeleteNo longer then could we affirm Jesus loved us and freed us from our sins, Jesus was the propitiation for our sins, Jesus died to bring us to God.
Rather we would have to say Jesus enabled our freedom from sin, Jesus enabled God to be propitiated for our sins, Jesus died to enable us to be brought back to God.
God bless
(I won't argue this further as I am sure you have debated calvinists before. All I would say is I got my "calvinism" from the Bible, not from Jaun Cauvin.)
Hi Larry,
ReplyDeleteThanks for this reply. I get my Arminianism from the Bible too. I fully believe that if it wasn't for Augustines Manicheistic influences (whom Calvin got his doctrine) then Calvisnism wouldn't exist.
The Bible does indeed talk about past tense for 3 reasons 1)God has planned that Jesus would be sent i.e. Promises to Abraham and 2)Jesus has indeed died to be a propitiation and atoning sacrifice, and 3) It is nearly always directed towards believers and therfore is talking of thier salvation that has already happened. Accepting it is meerly the means by which this becomes effectual towards us.
Also, I believe you are confusing Arminianism with a form of Pelagianism. Christ is the one who fully saves us. The Sacrifice is his, the calling, throught the spirit, is his and the enabling to respond is given by him also. I have nothing to give except myself. This is my and I'm sure your offering (albeit insufficient) to him. as the Hymn writer says "I sahll not boast in nothing less then Jesus' blood and righteousness, I shall not trust the sweetest frame but wholey rest on Jesus' name"
I'm planning to put a post up regarding your comments here, including quotes. Is that Ok? Please let me know as I wont quote you without your permission.
In Christ,
Peter
Cheers for the comment, my bad for the confusion - though I still disagree on matters of efficacy, but what the hey. Both of us have got better things to do than split hairs.
ReplyDeleteAs for quotes I wrote this in the public domain, go crazy!
God bless